Uber-Liberals can be just as off-putting as uber-Conservatives. I’m not talking about the type of Liberals who look at you with disappointment as you discreetly try to eat your cheeseburger, while they’ve ordered the veggie platter. I’m talking about the kind of uber-Liberals who, after you’ve invited them to dinner, respecting their beliefs enough to serve them up ‘Tofu Surprise,’ they still look at you as though you’ve handed them nuclear waste to consume because you heated their food in a ─ gasp! ─ ‘energy-bleeding, cancer-causing’ microwave.
I’m talking about the kind of Liberal who wanted to hang Michael Vick publicly by his…well, rhymes with ‘Vick’, and cut out his bowels, because of his mistreatment of dogs, but yet picketed San Quentin State Prison in order to save Stanley ‘Tookie’ Williams from execution. Not because they were at San Quentin protesting every execution of every inmate on death row, opposing the death penalty in general. That I can respect. However, Clarence Allen’s execution went virtually unnoticed in comparison to Stanley’s, because Stanley, who was the co-founder of The Crips ─ a Los
Angeles street gang that still exists today ─ had written some children’s books while he was incarcerated, books against street gang violence. Oh, and he also apologized for his brutal murder of a family of Chinese immigrants who were running a motel that Stanley robbed, and additionally for the shots at point blank range he put into the back of a 26-year old convenience store clerk during another robbery.
Yeah, you see, even though Stan refused to aid police investigations with any information against his gang, and was implicated in attacks on guards and other inmates, as well as in multiple escape plots, he and his supporters still maintained he’d had a change of heart, albeit too late for the people he slaughtered. Nonetheless, a battalion of lawyers was utilized, and piles of state tax money were spent on stay after stay of execution for Tookie. Tookie’s death sentence was protested because he was a celebrity in his own right. But Clarence Allen, a 76-year-old heart patient and diabetic when he was executed at the same prison, went pretty much unnoticed by the press and any uber-Liberals.
So, this is the sort of Liberal I’m talking about.
In fact, I’m pretty sure my husband and I came across a husband and wife team of this precise type of person the other night. And the husband part of the set, with the wife nodding along her agreement, asked us this in exactly these words:
“How come you have so many kids? Doesn’t it bother you the impact they have on the environment, and the adding to the problem of overpopulation?”
Now, my husband, bless his heart, took that as a genuine question, and not as the two-part accusation framed as a question that it actually was. That’s why he proceeded to answer it genuinely,too, explaining at length how much we love kids, etc. Heck, he practically whipped out his bank book to assure this fellow that, not to worry, we can indeed afford these offspring. In fact, we pay handsomely, to the tune of forty-percent of our hard-earned income in taxes, to offset any harmful consequence our children have had on our planet, based solely on their existence.
But, while he was doing that, I was looking at this couple who were looking at my husband while he was explaining himself, thinking, “Would you have posed that pseudo-question to us if we were covered in black skin instead of white?”
Probably not, would be the answer, because that would be an uber-Liberal “no-no” for so many reasons. But it’s okay to say it to us, because not only are we white, my husband is really, really white. My background is Italian, but my husband has roots that go back as far as the next boat after The Mayflower. And, between us we had five children, all sons.
Yow ─ five white males. Not good. It almost sounds like we’ve birthed a clan of neo-Nazis, doesn’t it? But we are a blended family, so only four of our sons are just as WASP-y as their father, while my one biological offspring ‘sprang’ from the loins of a Greek.
Now that I’m thinking about it, that particular son doesn’t even look all that white. He’s got very dark eyes and his hair, in long dredlocks now, is also dark. In addition, as far as his politics go, in the few short years he’s been old enough to vote, I’m fairly certain he’s voted Democrat every time. He’s also a musician and film major at university, two other aspects about him I’d imagine uber-Liberals would embrace.
So, do we get a ‘pass’ on him? I think we should, from a Liberal’s standpoint, anyway. The other four are likely more problematic, though, given their background and occupations.
Let’s start with the twins. One of them is a long-haul trucker, trekking people’s furnishings back and forth across the U.S. as they are forced to move because banks are repossessing their homes.
Ick, a long-haul trailer truck ─ that’s a huge carbon footprint. That son might have to go.
On the other hand, if there were no long-haul trucks, there’d be no way for people to move their possessions which are made from various materials, including, probably, plastics. What would happen if we forced everyone to abandon their possessions along with their homes? They’d have to get new stuff wherever they moved. That would cause twice as many non-recyclables per repossessed family to be present on the planet, causing that much more pollution.
Therefore, on second thought, that son is probably a necessary evil. So, I think we should get to keep him, too.
(Sigh) I wish I could come up with a reason to keep the second twin, but unfortunately, I can’t. The second twin builds houses for a living, and that occupation is naively optimistic, given that the housing market has gone to hell in a hand basket, and is not going to get better any time soon. So really, he’s just wasting trees. Also, even though he bought my husband and me both Al Franken and Barack Obama books for Christmas, I know he’s voted Republican now and again. And, I must confess, he owns guns. You can see there’s just no good reason he should be on the planet, despite the fact that he’s really rather sweet, has never been out of work, pays all his taxes, and even has a very liberal Poli-Sci degree.We’d be sorry to see him go, but he was part of a two-for-one, so I suppose it’s okay, as no one had really planned on him originally, anyway.
Oh wait ─ I know! ─ we can offer him up as an exchange. We lost his younger brother in a car accident several years back. Now that son wasn’t even 19 when he left us. He didn’t have much of chance to “add to overpopulation,” and unless you count playing some really badass baseball as having a “negative impact on the environment,” he didn’t get a chance to do much damage in that way, either.
So, the way I see it, is we have four surviving sons, who came originally from two sets of parents. That’s four for four, so doesn’t that make us even?
I also think there’s no way anyone would want us to get rid of the only one I haven’t mentioned, because he’s an accountant. With trillions of dollars in federal debt, trillions more being spent on Iraq and Afghanistan, and trillions additionally that the banks loaned out so capriciously, and which we are now having to give back to said banks with even more of our tax dollars, the country needs as many accountants as it can get to keep track of all that money as it slips through all our fingers.
You know, after careful consideration of all the combined factors, I think people should lay off us and our sons. So, the next time someone asks us how come we have so many kids, I know exactly what I’m going to say:
“My husband used to sell birth control pills. These boys are customer complaints.”
LOL! Your last line is hilarious!I don't understand why people are criticizing any family with 5 kids. 17 is excessive. Some people just want a large family, and one of my friends is one of those people. When she's married some years down the road, she wants at least 6 (adopted). Anyway, hear hear!
“My husband used to sell birth control pills. These boys are customer complaints.”That's even better than the comeback I was thinking of! Good grief. It's nobody's business but your own why you have the number of kids you do. Anyway, I have zero so between us you haven't done enough to maintain the population. 8:-)
Being asked by other people to qualify your children's existence by accounting for their individual carbon footprint must have been a surreal moment. The stuff that goes through people's minds…honestly! The scene you described has the making of something by Woody Allen- wow. They must be the modern hipster… self indulgent, self centered, narrow minded and rude.
Besides, we'll just say you had 'extra' (whatever that means) kids for me… I'm never going to have any… of my *own* that is.
I love your blog so much! x
I think adoption is terrific. I have a friend who is adopting her first child this month. She can't wait.
Hi, Queen! What comeback were you thinking of? I can always use an extra one!
Hi, Michelle,
Gosh- that's such a nice thing to say. So, if we had some of yours and are just holding them for you, can we start sending some bills? (hee hee hee)
Right back at ya with the blog compliment.
Oh, what fun! Go ahead and have a few more for me, please, if you're up for it. We're not planning to produce any of our own either.
Kudos to you. I think it's admirable when people know they don't want children and have the courage to stick with that decision. Because society gives people who don't want children the same flack people with many children get except it sounds like this, "Why don't you have any children?"
How dare people, really? I also used to get flack when I was married to my first husband for only having one child. One of these days will all have to figure out what the ideal number of children it is that people are supposed to have. Thanks for posting this comment.
that would be the best comeback ever.i hate people like that. how dare they even ask such a question? that just pisses me off… that's just so wrong. and rude. xox
What comeback were you thinking of? I can always use an extra one! Well, my first thought was to say that birth control is against your religion (I often play the religion card in response to stupid questions) but then I remembered that in the case of birth control that is often true and, therefore, not much of a joke. You could always tell folks that you were trying to use the rhythm method, but apparently you can't count. Or you could say that you were trying to raise your own basketball team. Or you figured it was easier than buying indentured servants.
i'm just curious if they had any children. if so, how many? are their kids so special that they don't have impact on the environment and yours do?
Aww, Gracie, you're so sweet, covering my back like that, girl. : D
Wow, these are all good, and funny, too. Thanks for the back-up ammo. ; )
Hi, Meru. Thanks for stopping by. I'll have to check out your blog, too. Nope-they didn't have any kids,so we have to give them credit for practicing what they preach. However, they did have a big dog. And I think that should count. (heh heh)
That's very cool
I too hate that question. I often want to reply that I'm trying to resupply the missing contributors to my social security that birth control took care of…but it never goes very well. So I finally just admit I need someone to help me with all that trash I'm too lazy to recycle. You're answer is by far the best one I've ever heard!
Man! You and Kirk! When are you guys ever going to just open up and tell us what you think??????
Well, if it was during dinner at your place, I would be very tempted to whip the plate out from under their fork and say "Oops, one of my unneccessarily children cooked/shopped for this meal so I would want to compromise your principles by allowing you to consume it". (this would be the polite option – the other would be telling them where they could stick their tofu)
How insufferably rude and obnoxious!
I think I know how to satisfy the uber Liberals.Get the boys a decent tan. If you can get them dark enough they might pass as untouchables. Of course they would have to acquire that tan via natural means. None of your fake tan or tanning bed excesses.If anyone comments on the new colour you could shake your head and blame it on a damaged environment. I think that would earn you extra credits too.Excellent post. Damn, I love blogs.
How very rude of them to air their flawed moral judgments to you. How many children you and your husband have is the business of precisely 2 people – you and your husband. Without folks like you bringing the next generation into being there would be no one to offset people like me who aren't planning on having a family and so in years to come there would be no one to pay taxes, do the work and run the country.
Of course if you want to get rid of them quickly you could always ask them for their advice on what is the best and biggest SUV to get to carry your large family around and inform them that the 'surprise' in 'tofu surprise' is that the lumps in the sauce are in fact bacon.
By the way, your son is going to LOVE you for putting up a photo of him dressed as a miniature but menacing Peter Pan.
Your husband has a patient forbearance that I can only dream about. My response would have likely been along the lines of "Get out of my house". Although I would like to think I would have been polite about it. Probably not. After 25 years in Philadelphia, my "have a nice day" veneer has worn a bit thinner than it used to be as a child in Marin.
Or perhaps I could have figured out a way to finesse it. Something like "we love children, and since you obviously hate children, we are happy to use your quota."
I can guarantee that however nicely I couched it, my response would have involved them feeling like dirt by the time they left. I'm working on getting better.
It is always good to have a back-up, just in case you lose one!
Jeesh, what a bunch of morons…..
You could also tell them you are making up for all the infertile women out there.
These are the same brain-donors who, when they see that my husband and I don't have kids, make huge assumptions and so "kindly" ask " so what made you decide not to have kids?".
On another note, it's not so much all the kids we should be so worried about but about what kind of moron parents are out there. Morons breed other morons…..and that is worse than any kind of carbon footprint.
In your place I'm pretty sure I would have just laughed hysterically for the rest of the evening… I mean, what a ridiculous line for them to take. Sure, I can understand do-gooder liberals (like myself) laying a little guilt trip on people about their current behaviour when it comes to domestic stuff like recycling and so forth… but it's not like you can just wiggle your nose and make your sons vanish! Bless your husband for even trying to answer a "question" that makes no sense whatsoever… when many others would have simply told them where to shove it.
Wow. Your hubby must be an Earthman. A polite one too. I think my response would have been more along the lines of: "I have so many kids for a couple of reasons; firstly because my sperm works and secondly because I am not gay. Which judging by the horse-cock on your adams' apple bearing "wife" I would guess you're still a little hung up on. What's your excuse? Other than being infertile and confused about where you put your dick? And while we are at it though, I also wanted to ask…were you born this fucking stupid, or is it something you worked at your whole life? And…oh! …oh! One last thing…you better answer and yet be real polite about it otherwise you're gonna get a bitchslapping right here too. And I'm not talking about the ones you like where you get cock-whipped while you're on your knees…no I mean just bitch-slapped. that is slapped in the face. And bitch, because…well you are one"
Goddamn I don't think I could have been nice about it. And I know a smart-arse comment would be more in keeping with modern etiquette, but the fact is that I like rubbing their nose in the fact that a "stupid" caveman with a club will STILL be their lord and master when push comes to shove. The fact i can probably out-do these idiots at quantum physics and mensa tests is just not as satisfying as knowing deep in their limbic brain somehow they will have to justify to themselves that they had to back down to a "primitive".
But then I really, really, really, have no need of those damn tree-hugging hippes. It's the hypocrisy. I can't stand it.
Hi, NayNay. I like your answers, too. I was reading you rbog and I was under the impression you had one child.Am I mistaken? Who is the adorable little person in your arms in your photo? If I could get one of those just as cute I mean, I'd take another and make it an even half dozen here! : )
Hi, RG. Thanks for stopping by. Yes, I know what you mean- Kirk, you, and I all three are just so cryptic and closemouthed in our blogs, aren't we? We have to learn to be more expressive. ; D
Hi, Emu. It's funny, but I wrote this post kind of tongue-in-cheek, yet reading the comments here, I can see many people found that couple's comment very offensive. I love your idea, though. I have ocasionally wished that I had the nerve to do that to some visitors—whip their plates out from under them and say, "Time for you to go home!" I've never really had the courage to do it, though it's kind of fun to think about, isn't it? ; )
Hi, Peter- I love your idea in theory but in practice- let me tell you- I'm not joking when I talk about white skin. My poor husband has to go twice a year to check his skin for cancer moles. He is covered in freckles and his kids have inherited that. Nick is bit darker, as I say, but even though he has dark eyes and hair, he got my light complexion, which is common in certain parts of Italy.
I love blogs, too and the technology that goes with it. I never stop marvelling over how we can all be scattered in all corners of the globe and yet can work on the same magazine, and even talk to each other whenever we wish.
We also have a blended family. Also, we are both from bign families. I am the oldest of 7 and he is the youngest of 11… Heck, he practically whipped out his bank book to assure this fellow that, not to worry, we can indeed afford these offspring.That's the part that always gets me. We could have all our kids in the store.. and usually we have a few extra.. neices and nephews for the weekend.. and the cashier will automatically assume that we are on State Food Assistance… Yes, kids are expensive.. and we shop at Costco and Wal-Mart because they are cheap.. but that does not mean that we are Welfare cases. I am willing to admit that we have used state resources in the past, when we needed it.. but that is whats its there for. We did not sit on it.When I was pregnant with our youngest child, an old, drunk man asked us if we knew what caused my pregnancy.. and we nodded that we did.. he said.. "No, Its lack of television." My husband and I looked at each other dumbfoundedly… The old man continued, "When you don't have TV, you have to find other ways to entertain yourselves.. and that is usually what happens." We smiled, laughed and locked it way to tell our kids how to prevent pregnancy… Watch lots of TV!
Wonderful blog post. But it's incredible – that someone had the nerve to ask you that. I know uber-liberals, and they can drive me crazy; I even know some with more than 5 kids.
AND, the proper amount of kids, according to some math by them, is 2.2
first off, who the heck asks such a personal and mean question? I get the opposite question from people, "when are you going to have kids?" My answer is "not now".
I love the sharpness of your humour. What a great rebuff! But I am still amazed that anyone could be so callous to imply something like that about your children, in your own home, while eating your food. The mind boggles. It must be so exhausting to be an uber-liberal. What could make you happy?
By the way, your son is going to LOVE you for putting up a photo of him dressed as a miniature but menacing Peter Pan.
You might be right, as I used a photo of him taken at a theme park for my 'How to Increase Your Four Year Old's Attention Span' in our mag this month, too. (One where he was pretending to be afraid of a dinosaur.)
After that one appeared, I'm fairly certain I heard him on the phone with his lawyer. ; )
Your husband has a patient forbearance that I can only dream about
I really hear you on this one, Lorin. This is one of his habits I'm trying desperately to adopt. ( I think I'll skip this habit of peanut butter for lunch everyday, though)
But, he was just explaining to me this morning that he's had a lot of practice with that particular line of questioning. He and his ex-wife had the twins first, then Greg only ten months later, and then Tim two years later. So they had four children all three years old and under, at one point in time. People find that astonishing for the most part. And I also always used to get, "Why do you only have one? What happens if something happens to him, then what would you do?" To which I used to respond, " You have three kids, so that you have 'spare,' in case? which one wouldn't you miss if anything should happen to them?"
(As you can see, it's a good thing you and I aren't married, We probably wouldn't have many friends) ; )
I think people sometimes just talk before they think and don't realise how nosy and/or hurtful some of their comments are.
Hey, La Fox! How are ya?
Morons breed other morons
Snarky,my dear, but too often, true.
; )
The topics too. Some blog material I would never raise at a party in case folk couldn't hack it.Sometimes folk reveal their inner self and it's often a thoughtful view.Loving working on the accessories to Harlots' Sauce Radio too.
Ha…I love it…La Fox! 🙂
I actually didn't mean it in a snarky way but I guess it came across that way.
We are products of our environment and I just see so many people whom I think ought to not be allowed to breed. That may sound snarky but I know you khow what I mean. The people you are making fun of in this post, for instance, should be evaluated. Yes, it takes all kinds to make the world go round…..but why do I see so many morons with large packs of offspring? Isn't that harmful to this world? We have enough morons. Your kids are amazing as they are products of their environment. Good parents usually make good kids…..who then usualy make good parents…and so on. Its not the quantity of the next generations that should be the worry….but the quality of it. Any idiot can breed…..but its good parenting that makes for a better future.
Patricia,you hit it right on the head,there are only black schools like grambling but what would jessie jackson and his cronies say when we start up some all white schools. Im sick of the way you have to tip-toe about race,one wrong saying in downtown KC MO. and you'll get shot,and it happens almost every week. Finish the fence between mexico and us and make the language only english. How come Texas and Florida kill the most murderers and child killers in the nation,about 4 years before they die and all other states keep them on death row for 20 to 30 years. Streamline the death penality and to the people who don't believe in the death penality what would you do to the guy who raped and murdered your 3 year old daughter,I would try and kill him as soon as I had a chance,but thats me and I hope to god nobody has to go through that but we all know it happens every day, As for your husband I have heard from you so many times how wonderful he is and you proved it to me when he handled that unbelievable question about your kids with dignity and patience,he is a special person,I have a good idea what you wanted to say and you should be proud you kept your cool,I don't think I could have because when somebody talks about my daughter or family it better be good or there have been problems when some things were said, Thanks again for getting my juices flowing,I feel very alive after reading your blog, Craig
You're sweet. And I'm with you on the recycling, totally. I've weaned myself off using plastic bags for trash for the most part and actually have cloth bags I used to go to the market. It's a matter of changing habits and putting up with a little inconveniece when the paper trash bag gets soggy. But it can really make a very big difference if everyone does it.
Thanks for stopping by Crowseer.
Wow, G. You really get all riled up about this stuff. Is that a Martian trait? ; )
I admit certain 'types' of people, meaning people who can be pidgeonholed (or pidgeonhole themselves ) into categories, like 'liberal' or 'conservative' or whatever, are I think, a bit insecure, but I have a feeling these two were just tactless and not much more dangerous than that. I look at it his way- if nothing else, it gave me a good topic for my blog this week. And it also made me think about how much I appreciate my kids.
How to prevent pregnancy… Watch lots of TV!
You know the funny thing about this? I know it's a joke and all, but it's actually true, isn't it? So many married couples end every evening watching television so late that when they do finally get to bed they are actually "too tired" to make love. I can see that once in a while if you're havng a tough day at work, or something, and you feel like you just need to 'veg; out in front of the telly, but I hear it way too often and from people a lot younger than my husband and me. To me, there's nothing better than sex with the one you love. At the very least, it sure beats anything that's on television! ; )
AND, the proper amount of kids, according to some math by them, is 2.2
Yeah…I always wonder if you have to pay full college tuition for that '.2 'kid. ; D
By the way, I meant to ask – how did you come up with your blog name? (Porphgyrl) It's interesting.
Hi. L.
Yes- ironically, the wife part of this couple laments about that all the time. She feel so bad that people keep asking her that question, ("Why don't you have any kids?" That's why their question to us really surprised me- can't they see they're doing the same thing that others are doing to them—asking personal questions that are nosy, none of their business and/or trying to make people feel they have to defend their choices? In my opinion, if people don't want children, they should never feel pressured into having them. Heck- people shouldn't even get a puppy if they're not sure they want one, because every living creature deserves to feel loved and wanted by their parents or caretakers. There's more damage done to people's psyches and spirits because they felt unloved and unwanted when they were children.
I completely agree with you on the TV thing. Yes, we own one but its never on and we don't have cable or satelite. Besides the farm keeps us busy enough.
I think that is why it is so easy for some people to give up on their marriage because that particular area of their relationship is not as good as it should be. My husband and I have a great sex life, which we have made it a point to not let that part of our relationship die/weaken. We may have our issues and problems.. but sex has never been a problem area.
He fixed the problem potential pregnancy issue. So now we just practice making babies.. without the worries. 🙂
It must be so exhausting to be an uber-liberal. What could make you happy?
I think this is so true, about uber-anythings. It's just neurotic, is all.
Thank you for the comment about my humour. I think a lot of my neighbours who responded to this post were so irritated by the couple's question they didn't notice I was also trying to be funny as I told the story! : )
Oh, no- don't get me wrong- I completely agree with you. It does seem that in many cases, the people who are the best influences on the younger generations have few chidlren or no children, but it's too often the case that those who aren't, breed like rabbits. Having said that, there are always exceptions….
I didn;t kow you had d aughter, Craig. How old is she?
I have to be honest and admit that I go back and forth about the death penalty. I'm not sure if it's a good thing or not. I do agree that if a state has it, someone shouldn't stay on death row for decades, like many do here in California. But I'm still undecided about capital punishment. It's hard to believe I don't have a definite opinon on it at my age, but I keep thinking about people who were wrongly accused and executed before they could prove their innocence. Then I go back to those who are killed by murderers and how horrible that is for them and for their loved ones. So I am undecided.
As far as the border of Mexico, my feelings are conflicted on that issue, too. Especially because California, which borders Mexico, used to be part of Mexico! So, it's like we took it from them, but now we don't want to share it with them? (sort of) I am not sure I'm for amnesty, but I am not sure I want to have a fence at the border either. My husband's idea seems like a good compromise- let anyone in who wants to come in from Mexico (because they are so desperate they will find a way in anyway no matter what kind of a fence we build) just have people stationed at the border who fingerprint everyone coming over and give them social security cards. This way, we can track any Mexican down who commits a crime, and also so that they pay taxes to work here, just like everyone else.I don't agree with the argument that Mexicans get jobs that others citizens want. I have a long list of reasons for that belief, but that's a subject for another time
I understand your point about all Black schools, but this post really wasn't about race issues. The other killer I talked about, Clarence Allen for example, was just as mean as Tookie, but he had white skin. Yet, you've got me thinking, maybe I should write a post about race next. ; )
I think that is why it is so easy for some people to give up on their marriage because that particular area of their relationship is not as good as it should be.
I agree. I just read an article that there is actually a scientific reason to make love with your spouse often. Couples who make love with each other regularly, bond chemically and so it keeps you closer as a unit. It's also so good for your health.So there are a myriad of reasons besidesthe fact that it feels so nice! ; )
BTW- Did I ever tell you my husband was raised on a rice farm that his parents still own? (Must be something about those farmers- they know their way around in the sheets! LOL)
so……
I guess what you are saying here, Patricia, is that I need to go looking for a farmer for my next husband? LOL! :p
LOL! In fact, my husband's brother is SINGLE, handsome and looking. (Although he might be a little too old for you.)
But I will tell you one thing, sweetheart, he would appreciate you for the precious diamond of a woman and human being that you are. No question about it. Can't imagine why any man wouldn't, frankly.
." There's more damage done to people's psyches and spirits because they felt unloved and unwanted when they were children."Don't I know it!!! That is why I never decided to have children, because my mom did such a crappy job that I would NEVER want to pass any of that pain on to someone else! I will just be the best kitty and turtle mommy ever!I am dumbfounded that she would ask you that then!
Four kids. My parents are almost as bad. I'm an oilfield worker, I work on the rigs bring big-ol carbon footprint gas to your home. It's funny… I've been reading through some of the things done against the last few Republican National Conventions, and it sounds a lot like Left-Wing extremists are more violent then far right wingers. Another ironic fact is that historically anti-war protesters are a very violent bunch.
LOL! Ya…I can't imagine it either….. :p
So how old is he? haha…just kidding! I'm not looking right now anyway as I have to deal with putting myself back together…..and there is that whole still married thing to deal with, too. (although that will most likely change next year as my hubby is chomping at the bit to get to the point where he can apply for divorce…and he has to wait until a year from the separation date to do that)
Yes, it's so much better to wait a while before you get into another relationship, especially as you're still recovering from this one. Personally speaking, I met my current husband very shortly after my last marriage ended. He was ure I was the right person for him and I was much more unsure because the timing was not right. I also found myself reacting to some thng he said/did as though he were my ex and not himself.We're fine now, but it would have gone easier at the beginning if we'd met just a little but later when I was more settled emotionally.
It's interesting though, in regards to emotions, you sound a lot more emotionally stable than he does.I mean you really examined everything and did your best and when you came to the hard conclusion that there was nothing to be done you cried of ocurse, but then you, picked up the pieces, and are getting on with your life, taking it one day at a time, unlike the 'bit chomper' I mean.
Another ironic fact is that historically anti-war protesters are a very violent bunch.
That is why I never decided to have children, because my mom did such a crappy job that I would NEVER want to pass any of that pain on to someone else!
I understand your reasoning here, but you know, sometimes we learn much better from other people's bad example of what not to do and what happens when you do it. I know lots of parents who wer far better parents just because their own childhood was so miserable.
But, as we said, that's a personal choice that only the people involved should make, of course.
Porphgrl – it is from porphyria, (otherwise known as the vampire disease), the disease I have, mixed with girl. I figured it's better than vampgrl or something – that would have people think I was some kind of sexual deviant. 😉
I just looked this up. This is a tough one and I hope you're managing it well. 'Porphyria' means 'purple' in Greek, I'm pretty sure, but 'Purple Girl' would probably be just as confusing as 'Vamp Girl.,"
; )
I think a lot of my neighbours who responded to this post were so irritated by the couple's question they didn't notice I was also trying to be funny as I told the story! : ) That can happen when you hit a nerve! 8:-)
Yep. It's happened to me a number of times reading my neighbours' blogs. They're probably sometimes sorry I leave comments, because I can get on such long-winded rants because of what was written! ; )
I have been told that before. Husband and I told ourselves that when I was 35 we would ask ourselves the kid question, if we did not want children at that age, then he would get fixed so I could get off the pill. 35 came, and the answer was a big fat No. I helped my step mom raise my baby brother and sister, I got up when they cried in the middle of the night, made bottles at 3am, cleaned up scraped knees, hid coins under pillows for exchange of a teeny tooth, potty trained, played and loved them. I gave up my childhood and teen years for them. I consider it my turn to live now. I feel like I have already done the mommy thing, and that is one tough job to do right. 😉
I so agree with you and aI applaud you because you know what you want and you stick to your guns. And that is one heck of a story. It doesn't sound like you helped raised them, it sounds like you raised them. Where was your stepmom while you were getting up at night and how old were you? Frankly, (And I hope you don't get upset with me for my candor) it sounds like you were targeted for free labour.
I do have to say you don't look near thirty-five, though.
Thank you. And yes, I am managing it quite well. I'm actually lucky; I can work and I don't end up in the hospital too often. It's a matter of managing it yourself and knowing your triggers.(most drs are clueless)
The purple name comes from our, 'porphs', unique pee – we pee strange colors – from port wine, purple, brown, amber, orange and even blue or green. It depends on which one you have, and your own family's genetic mutation.
Makes for great conversations. 😉
oh my – that question can be filed under "insufferably rude" – it's really none of anyone's business how many children you have – or whyvery good point on the uber-liberals – people can be two-faced no matter what spectrum of the political wave they fall inof course, the flip side of that is one of my co-workers (a fellow tutor in NZ) informing me that since we don't plan on having any children, we should have to pay more taxes, since we will be using the "services" of other people's grown-up children for the rest of our livesi tell you, i almost lost it – so, i just turned and walked away – i sure tried never to speak to her again – as a matter of fact, she's one of the reasons i quit (due to several questionable remarks by her – one having to do with adoption – thankfully, i could laugh at that one, because it was a real open-mouth-insert foot moment for her – and there was always "i'm not racist, but…" – which seems to be a popular preface for certain people in every country)
Yowza…what an incredibly rude pair of humans! I can't imagine saying something like that, straight to someone's face, in their home!
I don't know that this is a liberal vs. conservative issue; I've heard plenty of rude comments and statements made by conservatives like my father-in-law, and moderates, too. I think it's a simple matter of Very Bad Manners. And anyone who's opinionated on any topic or combination of topics and has Very Bad Manners makes for an intolerable creature.
I commend you for biting your tongue. I don't know that I would have or even could have. I would have snapped back with something I would have regretted. But maybe only partially. 😉
Well Thank You! I feel 35, whatever that means. Haha!My step mom is only 6 years older than I am, so she was out partying. I was a teenager, I moved in with my dad and her when I was 15 almost 16. She was 21. I would be bitter about the whole experience (I was for a long time) had it not been for the HUGE lessons I learned. I learned that motherhood is VERY hard, that drug and alcohol abuse lead to terrible decisions (watching her, not me), I also don't think I would have the close relationship with my baby brother and sister that I have now if I did not have such a huge hand in raising them. My sister came over yesterday and hung out for a while. I was free labor, but I adore my baby siblings so much that I would do it all over again.
Holy Cow! Now that is a new one! Having to pay more taxes because one doesn't have any children. Does she realise the havoc that would wreak on the population if any of our stupid politicians decided that had merit??!
You gave her the best answer possible. It's interesting because Kirk just asked me in my last post- "Does a Patrichist ever call a 'spade' a 'spade'? My answer was , "yes" and here goes- that woman had a bug up her bum for some reason and it sounds very much like she was indeed a racist.People like that don't deserve an answer, or to have their opinion be given any respect at all.
She sounds like she should start every sentence with the words, "I'm not a b*tch, but…"
Glad you're away from her.
Love your last sentence. And kudos to you for the way you're handling it. I've aways thought, If I can't have love, I'd want money and if I can't have money, I want to keep my health and if I couldn't keep my health, well, at least they can't take away my sense of humour! ; )
And anyone who's opinionated on any topic or combination of topics and has Very Bad Manners makes for an intolerable creature.
I agree with you emphatically. You know, sometimes, it's the way someone says something more than anything else that makes people feel they are obnoxious. If an opinion is put across graciously, even if it's a strong one, we'll at least listen to it. At least I know I will.
Thanks for coming by.
but I adore my baby siblings so much that I would do it all over again.
You do know that the fact that you feel this way at the end of it all has more to do with you and your attitude on life in general than anything else. And it makes you shine as a person. When I read your profile you said you are "shiny in the glow" of your husband's love, and I thought that was lovely. But he also must be basking in who you are, too. You make a great couple. (And you're both so pretty to look at, too, seriously, I love all your photos)
I also want to say that now that our children are, for the most part, out of the house, I find that the love I share with my husband is just as gratifying in its own way as having that houseful of kids.There is nothing sadder than a couple who, after their chidlren leave home, discover that they have no feelings for each other, nor a desire to stay together. That's why loving your spouse is so important, as is loving yourself. Kids should never be a replacement for either of those
I agree with you emphatically. You know, sometimes, it's the way someone says something more than anything else that makes people feel they are obnoxious. If an opinion is put across graciously, even if it's a strong one, we'll at least listen to it. At least I know I will.
Yep! It's the old adage: it's not what you say, it's how you say it.
And I think there's also a lack of empathy that's obvious from the way these people spoke. I wonder, do they have kids? Whatever the answer, they're obviously so narrow-minded that they can't imagine anything good in having children.
I think it was Lavender who asked me that question. No, they don't have any children, and in fact, the wife has lamented in the past that she wished she wouldn't get so much criticism from people for making that decision. And I have often supported here, saying that people should really mind their own business and that it's her decision how she wants to live her life, and etc, etc, etc. That's why their comments were ironic, really.
Seriously? That makes it even worse…you've supported their decision (which, as I well know, is very much socially unacceptable), and then they turn around and make comments like that???
Very Bad Manners. No empathy. Ugh.
Well, maybe just a little shortsightedness. You know, I was telling people that I mostly meant this post to be tongue-in-cheek funny, but as Emu said, I hit a nerve.
It's always been my opinion that a woman who conciously chooses not to have children is a far better mother by keeping her children unborn than those who birth them, only to discard, them emotionally mistreat them because they were never wanted in the first place. I remember an actress in the 80's once openly admitting that she knew she should never be a mother because the thought of pregnancy made her worry too much about her figure. Once she realised that about herself, she said, she knew she didn't have what it takes. She was so widely cristicised for that comment, but I applauded her for her honesty and courage. She knew she didn't have the qualities she would need to do a good job of mothering, so she left it to others who thought they could . She was called 'selfish,' but she was actually less selfish for having the guts to stand up to criticsm than if she had given in to social norms and made some poor kid miserable by not being wanted.
I've never understood that accusation–how can someone possibly be called selfish for not wanting to become a parent when they know they won't be a good one or don't even want to be one? It's such a common accusation made toward people who choose to be childless, and it makes no sense to me. Selfish would be having kids you don't want, and then mistreating or neglecting them, like you said. I had the misfortune of growing up in that kind of household and would prefer not to revisit it on another human being. But I've been called selfish by members of my own family for making that choice. Go figure!
I can tell you what it means. It means they themselves regret having children. They didn't or don't enjoy it much, so they feel like it was some sort of 'noble sacrifice' rather than the source of happiness it should be. Because they were miserable, they think that makes them 'unselfish,' therefore because you choose not to be miserable, that makes you 'selfish.' The people who think like this are weak people who give into every social norm- they get married, not because they're in love, but because they're 'supposed to,' and so on and so on with every life choice they make. That's why it infuriates them when others don't feel the same social pressure to conform that they did. They're angry at themselves for being wussies, not at you. People who are happy with thier choices never hurl accusations at other people. Just ignore them and live your life as you see fit.
Well, I guess, you hit a nerve, instead of me hitting a nerve. I've listened to that sort of shite all my life and it makes me angry.
Well, I can't say I don't feel social pressure–if only!–but I never thought of it that way. That's an interesting perspective. I've always assumed it had something to do with them feeling threatened by someone else's "abnormal" choice, but I didn't think much beyond that (maybe because I always knew it was their problem and not mine!).
But, that's exactly what I'm saying, too. It is that they are threatened by someone's 'abnormal' choice. To them, the only choice they had what was everyone else was doing! Lemmings. That's how many people behave. They say, "what does everyone else do/think and I'll just do/think that." (Sigh) I have a tough time understanding that.
LOL, lemmings..funny!
Exceedingly bad manners they showed.
I can relate to this post, but I really can't relate to people who ask things like that. I have four siblings, and I couldn't imagine life without them. And I find it distasteful to even try to imagine how life woud be better without any one of them.
I know what you mean. And I think I have to practice my writing skills. Somehow more than one person missed the tongue-in-cheek aspect of this post. I can't think of one of my kids the world would be better off without, though maybe that's just my mom-gene talking : )
I had to smile more then once, wonderful post. Reminds me of the possibilities of extreme in us all.
Thanks very much, Indiana. I'm glad you picked up that I was being droll to make just that exact point. ; )
I appreciate you stopping by.
How beautiful are You Guys! Loving each other so much for so long. I too see that with couples who are still together after children are raised and gone, they forgot they were originally together because of love. I hope that we last forever and ever too. We work very hard for it to last. We started out as great friends and that just grew into what we have now. We based our marriage on a foundation of friendship. I hope that is the secret ingredient. Thank You. I really do try to see things in a good light, try to let go of the negative and hold on to the positive. It is tough, but I try. 😉
Wonderful, wonderful post. Blown away..I have 4 children at the age of 30. I am always asked if Im done yet and told how greedy I am. In jest but still…You sound like loveing parents. Your kids have turned out jsut fine. Bugger the carbon footprint.
Hello there. How very nice to meet you. I spend some time over at your blog, saw your pretty self and lovely little children to match. I also notice you are a neighbour of Vicola's. Thank you for stopping by and leaving this comment.
I agree that having a friendship first is the most important base. I've often thought that if my husband and I hadn't had that 'spark' after we'd met I'd still want to be firend with im, because we;d been penpals for so long that I already considered him a very important part of my life. As for life being hard sometimes and feeling sad, that's one of the reasons I love being on VOX. I read about how many of my neighbours have suffered all kinds of unhappiness and tragedy and they've coped and/or are coping. It makes me feel that we're not alone as we sometimes stand on life's rough edges
Oh no, the tone came through perfectly. I was commenting more about their underlying assumptions.
I was suprised to see Vicola, I actually stumbled across the group via a new member atomic-comic,.Im not sure if he's posted yet.Your post has really stuck with me. Im sorry that you lhave lost a beloved site. Its too much to bear thinking of. My brother is very ill at the moment, I know nothing can be as bad as loosing a child but coming thids close to such unimaginable loss has totally changed my life – for the better.The little things , the niggles, the petty stuff is all insignificant. I am so much happier now. I appreciate that my life is richa dn full and I am no longer searching. I love being a mum and refuse to apologise for being maternal. I may have more one day, its not a plan but I have too realised that you can plan these things in life. Whatever happens sod what anyone else thinks. Personally I find people with kids who moan all the time infuriating. Its such a short time in your life that you devote to your children. I have had my children within a decade and its flown. In another decade they will all be adults..well maybe not my baby Sonny but you know what I mean. I am sooooooooo going to have empty-nest syndrome! Maybe I'll beone of those 60yr old women who pop one out at the dinner table having thougth they were going through the menopause…..haaaaaa
It's interesting though, in regards to emotions, you sound a lot more emotionally stable than he does.
I have to laugh that you said that and that is mainly because you are in a long line of people who have said that. Today, I heard it from my counsellor whom I have started seeing again because I finally can afford it again now that I am getting spousal support being paid to me (…finally). While I don't understand how we got from point A to point B, I can see a lot of things in the past few years and see that we did slowly lose our connection…..and I accept responsibility for my own part which is something that he cannot do. While I don't know many of his reason, he has lumped all blame onto me and has actually accused me of ruining his life. (….rrrrright!) He cannot acknowledge how much he has hurt me and ripped my life apart. We were supposedly best friends!! To him its all about him. However, I do hope he gets it together evenutally otherwise he is never going to be happy unless he does. He is going to have a serious aha moment someday and realize what he did and how he acted and it's going to be one serious lightening bolt. As for me, I will heal and move on to bigger and better…..and healthier. I am just not a patient person so this process is just killing me…haha! But I know its all good. Better days are ahead and I am curious and excited to see what delights they will be filled with……and with whom! I have a job opening for a new best friend!! :p
Oh, good. I worried a bit about my delivery. : )
My brother is very ill at the moment, I know nothing can be as bad as loosing a child but coming thids close to such unimaginable loss has totally changed my life – for the better.
I know that, Kelly, about your brother, I read it on your blog and felt intrusive leaving a comment about it as we've only just met. It's terrible having a loved one, and one so young on top of that, be ill. But you are remarkable that you have turned it around and used it to recognise how short life can be and that it should be savoured while we're here, as a result. You also made me think of my own chidlren again when they were young. You are SO right that those years end too quickly too. I find it astonishing when people say things like, "Have them all at once and 'get it over with' or "I'm so bored with the child-minding." I never found it a chore to take care of children, but one of life's greatest joys. Any worries I had when my son was small were financial only. Boredom never came into it for me. How can one be bored when babies see everything , even a trip to the market, as an adventure? They always make the mundane seem fresh and new. In fact, I was that menopause lady you describe, when I realised it was happening, I was sad for the sole reason that I knew any more babies in my life would be grandbabies only. It sounds to me like you are the perfect person to be taking care fo four children and a child with special needs like Sonny needs a mum like you even more. It's really so nice to meet you and I wish you every joy with those lovely little ones. (And a very speedy and complete recovery for their young uncle, too)
As for me, I will heal and move on to bigger and better…..
Yes, you will. It's already happening, my friend. And I couldn't be happier for you. Oh, there will still be days when you wonder what it was about but counselling helps and if we really let ourselves, we heal and grow stornger from life's tragedies. And we're always here to talk to, too. I hope it helps a bit.
It makes life much less painful when you know others are going through and have gone through something very similar to you. It feels nice to me that so many here KNOW what I rant about sometimes, it does seem to take the load off when you realize so many are carrying it with you. and did you say that you met your husband because you were pen pals? That is Adorable!
Maybe I shouldn't say this but im going to anyway,those people who couldn't believe you have 5 children should think about this true story I just found out from my ex last weekend. Melanie is a good friend of me and my ex and I just found out she lost her baby in her 9th month,the cord got twisted and the baby dies from lack of oxygen and nutrients,she still had to go through labor knowing her baby was dead,im crying now just writing this,but every baby is a blessing no matter how many you have,its been a month and a half since her tragidy and we went and visited her saturday and saw some pictures of what would have been a beautiful baby,she is coping very good,she's 38 and who knows if she will ever want to take another chance trying to have a baby but if a woman has 5 or 10 children its not anybody's business except the parents and to bring up to the parents a figure of how many children is acceptable shows there ignorance and total disreguard for the feelings it makes the parents think about at that minute,and they were very lucky they said it to tolerant people who are educated and adult minded. Melanies husband is a lawyer and 20 children wouldn't hurt his portforlio. Im as worried about our earth as much as almost anybody else but I would never say too many children can cause damage to the earth,I say the more we have the better the chance some of them will create a cure for global warming,they are our future not our demise. Roboter
Nope, can't take away the sense of humor or sarcasm. 😉
I haven't read all of the comments, but on a quick zip through noticed Scio in there. I was going to say that I've had the same problem justifying my five, but he did it for me. I don't think his siblings can imagine life without him, either. Great post, thanks for the laugh! I have had to explain giving birth to a cartoonist and philosophy major (two of Scio's brothers).
it does seem to take the load off when you realize so many are carrying it with you.
I agree.
Well, 'penpals' is a loose term, We were emailing each other letters. We did that every single day for six months until we finally met face-to-face. And I'd only seen one photo fo him and he of me before we met, too. It didn;t seem to matter what we looked like much, because we just liked each other so from writing. He came to greece to meet me and we went from friendeship to love in a very short time. (I have to admit, it was really quite nice)
Oh, and one more thing I forgot to say? Speaking of husbands, your husband is really very handsome, I thought. I loved your photos of him on your Flickr account (loved all your photos there, too) You make a very beautiful couple. I might hav etold you this already, but these days I can't seem to remember what I said and didn't say any longer than ten minutes. ; )
Haha! Thanks, I think he is quite a looker, I always have! Hahah! Your story of how you met your husband is SO sweet!!! AW!!!!
they are our future not our demise
This is a fantastic thign to say and I agree with you so much. Rach generation hopefully gets smarter and more productive. Hopefully beofre i leave this planet, i;ll see human beings imporve things more and more.
Craig, I am so terribly, terribly sorry about your friend's baby. I had a friend who went through a very similar experience. and I can tell you that it's going to take a long time for that couple to get over this and the only thing you can do as a friend is support and show you care. Thirty-eight is not too old to have another child these days.My sis-in-law had her first wehn she was forty. WE're lving longer and there ar eso many medical advances. I hope that when she's ready, your friends will try again to become parents. They'll never forget this little one, but another child will help ease the ache a bit
I have had to explain giving birth to a cartoonist and philosophy major (two of Scio's brothers).
People are absolutely astonishing sometimes, aren't they? Where would the world be without cartoonists and philosophy majors? Seriously, both help us think. I suppose that's going out of fashion these days..I'd love to see photos of your children when they were small. I notice you had a b&w of a child on your blog and I always wondered if that was one of yours.
As soon as I get a minute I'll post more pics; just returned from a trip to my mom's; and I'm cleaning out my house because Suze Ormond says cleanliness is one of the traits of a wealthy woman (that's a blog in itself, I'm thinking about it). The little girl on my blog is myself, age 2, in my Auntie Jo's pantry.
The little girl on my blog is myself, age 2, in my Auntie Jo's pantry.
Really? You were a Q-T. (Says Patricia as she hurriedly dusts and sweeps…)
; )
Thanks, that was a long time ago. Oh, pardon me, it's Suze Orman, I spelled her name wrong; I bought her book for women re: finances because there's a lot I never had to worry about and am learning on the fly since my divorce. It''s the month by month guide to financial stability–I got as far as "clean your house" three months ago, still working on it so I can move on to the next chapter!The subject of this blog reminds me of the worst commencement speech I ever heard, by Nikolas Cristoff (or is it Christoff?) the Pulitzer winning op-ed writer for the New York Times, uber-liberal, who after a jolly story about a beheading went on to how many thousands die each day from hunger. "Just to put it in perspective," he said, "that's one Virginia Tech shooting every 90 seconds." As if the two were in any way comparable. As if 4 kids from my area weren't shot, 2 fatally. I believe the words stupid jackass fell out of my mouth out loud, unfortunately I was in the balcony and he couldn't hear me.
Good Lord, Beaner. This is quite a story. Where was this speech? I really have to google it now and read the whole thing.
I never notice other people's spellng erros, BTW. I make too many of my own.
Ha between my hubby and I (both were married once before) we have 6 kids, 5 boys and 1 girl. Now I would greatfully give up my hubby's youngest son and so would he…oh maybe we did. haven't heard from him since he asked for the corvette and we said no and that was 12 years ago. You know I think I got that one wrong…we haven't heard directly from him but we have had many calls from bill collectors looking for him!
I think the majority of folks in this country aren't the extreme liberals or conservities that we see and hear in the media. Most of us just want to get along and have the ability to earn a decent living. Yes I'm a bleeding heart liberal but I eat beef, drink water from plastic bottles (I do recycle them), and have far too many pets. And I have a 40 year old son that votes repub…OK I've said it, and I'm not proud of that fact but I do hold out hope for him! He confessed the other day that he had voted for Bill Clinton. I guess he can't help it as he is a hunter with lots of guns etc. and is tryign to be a born-again. I know it is my greatest failure in life but I do hold out hope for him to join the enlightened before he turns 45.
Hubby had registered as a Demo for the first time in his life…Ok I didn't turn him around, W did! So I can thank W for one thing…converting my hubby so there is hope he can convert my boy!
I don't know if you can Google it, I don't think it was published in anything other than the commemorative book from the school–he was the commencement speaker at my cartoonist son's graduation from the School of Visual Arts (Manhattan) in May of 2007, so that was shortly after the Tech shootings. I was sooooo disappointed. This was the man whose articles inspired SaveDarfur, for pete's sake. It was a terrible speech altogether.
You know, I've noticed that those who are really good at the written word do not necessarily translate well when they have to make a speech. That could be part of the problem.The other part is his insensitivity it sounds like. I did try to find it thorugh google and you're right, it's not online anywhere.
It must've been pretty interesting at your house. I wonder what it felt like to be the only girl in a houseful of brothers, too. Thanks for stopping by.
WOWPeople would ask that of someone, that is just shocking really. Children are a sign of love and trust and any parent raising happy and healthy children should be given a medal not ridiculed.I come from a family of six children and my parents got it wrong on so many levels but I can bet no one asked them why so many children.Maybe these people just have nothing better to do then give people a hard time, I feel sorry for them.I love your final response 🙂
My daughter was raised with mostly with one brother. When I remarried my new husband had 4 sons and only one came home later. So daughter didn't really have 5 brothers at once. I think she did OK and said it really helped her not to be boy crazy as a teenager because she really didn't prefer boys due to her experiences with her brother….not a bad thing. But she has recently had a baby and it was a boy. I think because of her experiences with her brother she will be a great mom for her son.
In most cases people just blurt things out without thinking about what they're saying. At least, that's how I try to look at things and I also try to look at them in a humourous way.
Do you think our parents weren't as prepared for parenthood and didn't have as much knowledge about it as we have available today? I hear so many stories about how that generation messed up when raising children, it just makes me wonder. Of course, our kids will probably say the same thing about us to a certain degree. (I'm talking generally )
Thank you for stopping by.
I think because of her experiences with her brother she will be a great mom for her son.
That's probably true and congratulations. How lovely to have new grandson : )
I agree people sometimes just say things and I like to think they don't realise how hurtful those comments can be.My parents would of been the perfect guests on Jerry Springer so I can not really compare them to others, but I do know that my parents generation do appear to have a bad rap from most people, it probably is something this generation of parents will experience as well. 🙂
My parents would of been the perfect guests on Jerry Springer
I'm sorry to hear that, but one of the things I've discovered from being on VOX is that we are not alone in having had parents who were…well, you said it best. I found that despite that heartache oand disappointment, it made me stronger and much more compassionate and it certainly taught me that I wouldn't want my own child to feel unloved. I hope you were able to find some positive in it, too.
Ah, you have to (not) love people who argue that everyone should have the freedom to live life as they like provided it's the life they've decreed is correct.It's difficult for some liberals to understand why you might look at the world and think it's a perfectly acceptable choice to have as many children as you like as long as you're capable of raising them properly or to eat meat or wear leather or whatever else is the uber-liberal topic du jour. This is because things exist in black and white for them – at the same time as telling us organic, free-range farming is best for the environment, they're ignoring the evidence that actually intensive farming produces the least emissions (not that I think it's right to treat animals that way, but that's my point – there's a whole ethical grey area that's being largely ignored).I get particularly annoyed when uber-liberals carp on about green issues because I know people out there trying to make a real, sustainable, logical difference to the world without pissing everyone off and loudmouth uber-liberals are consigning them all to the aging hippie sterotype.Being a cautious liberal is hard work; you need to read and learn until you're blue in the mind and even then accept you might not understand anything and your most closely held beliefs could yet turn out to be wrong wrong wrong and STILL motivate yourself to change things for the better if you believe it's better right now. That's why being a rude, unthinking uber-liberal is preferable.
That's why being a rude, unthinking uber-liberal is preferable.
You know, never thought of it that way. Good point.
Exactly, thank you. And I'm waiting for this whole organic thing to implode (means more bug feet on your food, after all), just like the energy saving lightbulbs that by the way have mercury in them, so they aren't supposed to go into landfills. Have you called to find out what to do with them? Throw them in the trash, said my local recycling plant, we aren't set up to handle those….did everyone forget about mercury poisoning? Landfill to watershed to fish to people…
(Sigh)
Yep. Might as well eat meat, burn coal, and pee in the backyard.
That's quite a battle cry! 😉
Interesting post, Patiricia. Great “punch line” at the end, but the underlying idea isn’t a joke. It’s genuinely bizarre how much attention folks pay to OTHER people’s family choices (kids vs. no kids, how many kids, etc.) when they’d be wise to spend a little more energy on their own. Always easier to worry about others than ourselves, I suppose…
I hear that VirtualD. And I have to say that I’ve always believed that those who don’t have children because they KNOW they won’t be the attentive parents that their children would need,are actually better parents (and people in general) than those who have kids because they either bowed to social pressure or expectation,(or for other even more nefarious reasons) rather than out of any real desire to raise children.
You might be right about the “better parents” idea, but I’m not a likely guinea pig to find out. 😉 That said, it’s the social pressure/expectation that most perplexes me. Seems that so many couple operate as if they are hard-wired to have children… Seems to me that choice is a really important (and often overlooked) part of the equation. And I mean choice by BOTH parents. And, as fellow blogger Brian Giebel points out, if you decide to have a child (or children) it’s critical to continue reaffirming that ongoing choice every day. Don’t feel trapped. Don’t resent. Choose to be a happy, invested parent! Easier said than done, I’m sure, but makes sense to me. Cheers!
Good discussion. As a late thirty-something with no kids and no plans for kids I’ve never faulted anyone for having kids (my brother has 4), anymore than I’d want them to fault me for my choice. Live and let live.
But I do often wonder at a change I see in people who become parents. They often become incredibly defensive about their kids and their family choices — on nearly any topic. An example: when my wife and I got married 8 years ago, we wanted to have an adults-only event for a variety of reasons. The backlash we took from family and friends truly surprised us. It went beyond their needing to find babysitters. People seemed to take it very personally that we weren’t inviting their infants, toddlers and pre-schoolers. And more strangely — even people who had had adult-only weddings before they had kids lashed out at us.
This is just one example of a change in behavior we see in our friends with kids when it comes to them and their families. Does anyone else recognize this in others or themselves? Can anyone speak to it?
Thanks!
I think I can, though I’m sure there’ll be tons of backlash for it. This is the ‘Love-Me-Love-My-Dog’ syndrome. How dare you not like their child/dog/political perspective, etc. etc.? How DARE you express a preference that’s different than their chosen one?
If people do not have a deep-seated insecurity about a life choice, whether it’s a political or social one, it should not be too difficult to accept and tolerate that other people make different choices. But if they are wrestling with something about that choice within, this is how it comes out. To me, anyone who feels that a child HAS to be included in every social invitation is not showing love for that child, they are making a statement. What that statement is can be anything from a passive-aggressive disapproval of YOUR lifestyle or a regret about their OWN choices–I.e- “If I have to suffer my kid’s presence, so do YOU. Why should you get a pass?” Or, “How shameful you are for not having children of your own. I can MAKE you like them, make you a “worthy” person again, by forcing my kid’s presence on you, so you LEARN your lesson.”
I’ve had to deal with this because I a) don’t like other people’s dog’s climbing on me b) don’t like other people’s kids climbing on my living room sofa c) have chosen not to speak to my parents and siblings (you have to HEAR the nervy things people say to me about that) and on and on about everything from my diet choices to my choice of allowing my kids to be their own men. (We really do have everything from right wing – to -left wing in our offspring, and depending where our friends stand, they are continually asking us why we don’t dress down whichever one they disagree with.)
When my choices are questioned, I don’t argue. I say, “I understand you disagree. This is the way I feel about it. End of discussion.” I by no means ever feel I have to apologize or change my stance. If you don’t want children at your party, that is your choice. If people insist, I would say, “I’m sorry you feel that way. See you some other time.” In short, believe in yourself and what you think is right and ignore naysayers. And enjoy your party!